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Ask Frank Daignault Frank Daignault is recognized as an authority on surf fishing for striped bass. He is the author of six books and hundreds of magazine articles. Frank is a member of the Outdoor Writers of America and lectures throughout the Northeast.

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  #136  
Old 08-10-2012, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

Wrong thread, Bill.
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  #137  
Old 08-10-2012, 08:53 AM
lagoonguy lagoonguy is offline
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Daignault View Post
Wrong thread, Bill.
Not really. I was asking a question of Al in response to his post of 7/31/2012 on this thread.
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  #138  
Old 08-10-2012, 11:29 AM
JoeLyons JoeLyons is offline
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

Thanks - that cleared a lot up.
The time line of the book, from a nuts and bolts, technical aspect, is the most well-conceived element of the book.
The story and the emotion, are in a separate column.

Guys having crushes on your wife - that's one downside to never being apart.

Obviously, I did not know Woolner, and I could be talking out my a_s here, but making a serious pass at another man's wife, that's a very dishonorable thing.
You really think he was capable of that?
Was he dumb enough to think that Joyce would entertain such a thing?
If that's true, I'm not sure why you admire him. That's the kind of thing one would expect of a not-so-bright, unbalanced, untrustworthy man of low character.
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  #139  
Old 08-10-2012, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

Joe, I overstated it. Woolner never really made a pass. He said a lot of harmless things was all. It was harmless banter wht with her so young and he, by his admission, a harmless old cumudgeon. The fault is mine. Maybe I put it that way because she was always so attractive.

Tim Coleman did not use his red pen much as editor but he did change the title from Dairy of a Rod and Reel Commercial to Twenty Years on the Cape, which was a valuable addition. I also first released a shortened version in five parts shown each week in the Fisherman as kind of a market test. It was well received by Fisherman readers which gave me enough confidence to go on with the project.
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  #140  
Old 08-10-2012, 07:27 PM
JoeLyons JoeLyons is offline
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

Don't over state to a literal man given to miss-reads. I understand the concepts of metaphor and symbolism, but I struggle with subtlety.

Everybody needs an editor - even if it's only for a second set of eyes. Of course, Tim Coleman was much more than that. He really knew what the public expected and how it should be presented.

Tim Coleman was the only editor to reject more than one of my pieces. I published his book and we got along fine in that capacity. But I never really hit off with him as a writer. I used to send him stuff unsolicited, because I don't like speaking on the phone. He did most of his communication via phone. I know he didn't like that. I'm certain he took it as a presumptuous breach of protocol.

But when I was publisher and he was author, he could compartmentalize it. I liked that professionalism. I'm not going to hate somebody just because they rejected some articles that would not have paid very well anyway.
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  #141  
Old 08-12-2012, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

More on going over the line with interpersonals: A lot of people, even today still, fawn all over my wife as a way of complementing me. They can see that I have an inordanate pride in her -- shooting running deer, pheasant doubles, an occasionnal high trap score, her '77 Governor's Cup -- and they feed into that. (you just did it again, Frank) It is not some overt effort to put their hand on her knee. So harmless and so obviously complementary, its purpose likely is to win me, not her. And they do.

Closer to the thread's purpose, and my wife's place in Twenty Years is clearly addressed in the text, family fishing done out of a beach buggy was one of the sub plots. Like commercial sale of stripers, beach buggying is dieing and has a limited future so I felt it needed to be acknowledged before it too went down the historic drain.

I hasten to admonish that this thread is about my first book and not open to digressions which divert attention from it. So if any of you want to put up personal messages, when we have places for that, I am going to take them out right quick!
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  #142  
Old 08-13-2012, 09:26 PM
JoeLyons JoeLyons is offline
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

Joyce is one of those people you meet and within fifteen seconds you can tell they are exceptional.
Had she born a little later, under more liberal circumstances, and with the kind of advantages the average college student has, she would have gone way, way up. P.hD., dean, provost, a published, tenured professor.
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  #143  
Old 08-14-2012, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

Yes, Joyce is a study in human development. She has a probing mind and a penchant for understanding human frialty. One of the most critical flaws in her development was being socialized in an all-girls Catholic school. It took her a long time to get over the failure to grow up in a co-ed environment. In my HS reunions she got to see the dynamics of non-romantic boy/girl friendships, a thing she had no prior experience with. I make that point to emphasize that isolating the sexes -- a rampant Catholic dogma -- is an unnatural aspect of socialization. She is over that now but it took her a long time.

My pursuit of this, in addition to being enjoyable conversation, is not to puff and strut about my wife, but to explore aspects of development that might illuminate the issues in all our member lives. This is not a private exchange. Rather, I am simply taking advantage of Lyons' incite. He adds things. We also have some others but if I start naming them I will forget somebody.
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  #144  
Old 08-14-2012, 11:14 PM
JoeLyons JoeLyons is offline
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

I add things. Thank you.
She won't read this, so I don't have to worry about getting a verbal beat-down. My wife is a dean. Joyce is sharper.

Women are like art - so they deserve to be examined within the time and context of their development. Right now, 8% of Americans hold a master's. About half to two-thirds go straight through. Of that, the overwhelming majority have every advantage. (I put my wife through graduate school before and just after we were married - we had zero kids.) Joyce raised a crowded camperful of kids and got her masters and had a successful career.

So think of the context with respect to Joyce. How many American women, with four grown, or almost-grown children, 30 years ago, subsequently went on to earn a master's and have a professional career? I'd be willing to bet that it was less than the number of men involved in professional baseball from Single "A" to the Majors, at the time. That's rare enough to be considered an extreme anomaly.
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  #145  
Old 08-15-2012, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

Last week trap shooting one of the guys asked Joyce if she was going to break them all and she said, "it depends upon which of us shows up to shoot today."
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  #146  
Old 08-15-2012, 01:58 PM
JoeLyons JoeLyons is offline
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

You're a critical thinker. With books, and art, and academics, being a critical thinker is an asset. Every professor is a critical thinker. The first thing they focus on is an aspect of a hypothesis that is weak or unsupported and therefore refutes the notion being put forth.

For something to be proven true, like the major point of a master's thesis, each element of the research needs to be defensible as fact. The collective facts should encompass a wide enough scope to support a conclusion to the validity of the hypothesis. It requires a lot of work to prove anything true.

However with human beings, all are flawed. So, critical thinkers can come across as asholes if they do not shift they way the think with respect to people. One needs to assess the rare exceptional person in a more liberal and complete context, and accept the flaws, without rejecting the person. Because so many people have flaws that are those of a sociopath, or a really dumb, or otherwise critically flawed person. We need to embrace those few, precious, exceptional people we are fortunate enough to have in our lives.
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  #147  
Old 08-15-2012, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

I read that book Twenty Years a few times and always loved it, wait what are we talking about
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  #148  
Old 08-15-2012, 10:39 PM
JoeLyons JoeLyons is offline
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

I'm allowed to digress to a further degree than other people, because Frank says I "add things."
So...Nanny-Nanny-Na-Na.
Twenty Years is a wonderful book. Original, emotional, and instructive in fishing and human nature - both good and bad. The superb use of a timeline where the state of the fishery, and commercial rod-and-reel fishing from the beach, parallels F&J's children growing up and moving on. It is revealing on a personal level that is rare, as the Daignault family approaches the bittersweet, yet inevitable. Concluding with the close of a way of life on several levels, and the striped bass moratorium.
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  #149  
Old 08-16-2012, 06:30 AM
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

One of the unintended results of Twenty Years, Jon, was that I was a beginning writer and that came through in a positive way. The actual writing took place around 1988 and I had been doing magazine articles for 18 years at that point. Warts and imperfections often add to the appeal of some literature. I knew more about what I was doing when I did the follow up Eastern Tides and for some reason the latter failed to resonate as strongly as Twenty Years. Of course the editor of ET cut the nuts out of it because of liability concerns and, rightfully, I gained badly needed protection from what could have been a battalion of lawyers.

It is necessary to contrast the two titles because they were both auto-biographical, were rooted in rod and reel commercial fishing, dealt with the family. ET was my chance to bring new insight through the address of Rhode Island surfcasting, a thing I was unable to do in the first, Cape Cod book. BTW, publishers dispise auto-biographies because they are tired of so many authors who truly believe they had an exciting life. I was lucky, at least in the first auto.
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  #150  
Old 08-16-2012, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Book Talk: Twenty Years on the Cape

I would love to read 'Eastern Tides: the editor's edition'. .... The version you submitted
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